August 2, 2022 - EyeClarity Podcast
This is a presentation I gave to a group of occupational therapists on how vision relates to our nervous system, trauma, and our consciousness. Enjoy the show. If you want more, sign up for my newsletter at:Â www.drsamberne.com.
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
astigmatism, prisms, reflex, child, eye, primitive reflexes, peripheral vision, vestibular, test, prescription, breathing, vestibular stimulation, van orden, kids, meridian, stigmatism, proprioception, vertigo, trauma, macula
Hello, everyone. It’s Dr. Sam, I’d like to welcome you to my EyeClarity podcast. This is a show that offers cutting-edge information on how to improve your vision and overall wellness through holistic methods. I so appreciate you spending part of your day with me. If you have questions, you can send them to hello@drsamberene.com. Now to the latest EyeClarity episode.
Well, good afternoon. It’s so great to be back with you. And I’m excited to share all this information. Also want to leave time for Q&A, make sure we’ve got plenty of space to do that. So in our list here today, I want to go through several things, and then we can elaborate, if need be. So the first thing on the list is a quick review about how to read glasses, prescriptions. And by the way, if anybody wants to say something in the chat, they can, I can also bring you on, if if you need clarification. So when you get a child and you’re looking through their file, and you get the prescription, there some notations that you can look at now will at least give you an indication on what they have been prescribed. So in the nomenclature of the eye prescriptions, which is an FDA approved document, the Eau de represents the right eye, and the OS represents the left guy.
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And usually the OD is on top and the OS is on the bottom, usually in a prescription form. So the first thing that you want to look at is whether the first number has a plus sign or a minus sign in front of it. So a plus sign means that there’s going to be a farsighted prescription. This is the magnification lens, a plus lens, or a minus lens, which is a negative lens, a nearsighted lens, a minus lens. And on a real basic level, a plus lens, usually a person has more difficulty seeing things up close. This is also a prescription that’s used more for strabismus and amblyopia, generally speaking. And nearsighted. Minus lens means that a person is having more struggles in the distance that they can see well up close. So whatever you’re seeing plus or minus, that’s going to cue you the first number is going to be farsighted or nearsighted. Lis, so let’s say for argument’s sake, it’s a one. So this means that if it’s a plus one, that means that the prescription is farsighted. We call that the sphere SPH. And then if you look at the next, a number over and you’ll see above it c y L, that’s called cylinder.
That’s the astigmatism part of the prescription. And if an ophthalmologist is doing the examination, he was going to write it in a plus cylinder plus a stigmatism format. If it’s an optometrist, he or she is going to write it in a minus cylinder format. Now, at this point, it doesn’t really matter because you’re not going to be transposing prescriptions, meaning that you’re converting them all to minus cylinder. But you’ll know that if it’s a plus cylinder, the ophthalmologist did the exam. And if it’s a minus cylinder, the optometrist did the exam. And then you’re going to look at the next number over and that’s going to be the amount of astigmatism in the prescription. Now a astigmatism means the eye is shaped more like an egg, or a football. Also perceptually a person, when they look through an astigmatism lens, there’s a warp. So there’s an irregular blur that’s going on. And then if we take it one step further, and I get a lot of interesting comments on my social media posts, when I talk about cranial sacral therapy, unwinding the astigmatism in the eye, because the astigmatism actually is sourced in the body as a twist. So this could go into a birth trauma coming out of the birth canal, or it could be a problem with the spinal Gilat reflex. And so a stigmatism in the eye means that there’s probably some twist or warp going on in the body. Could be a scoliosis could be one leg longer than another. It could be some kind Have a head trauma. There’s a lot of reasons why we develop a stigmatism in the eye, but it has its roots in the body.
This is why I don’t correct for a stigmatism in the eye, and I do cranial sacral therapy, and the astigmatism goes away in the eye. Whereas if you were in a stigmatism lens, and you do cranial sacral therapy, after the session, the twist is gone in the body. But as soon as you put the lenses on the astigmatism comes right back. So it’s a very interesting relationship between the astigmatism reading in the eye, and the astigmatism reading in the body. And we can go into more depth, if you’ve got questions about that. But for now, if you do see the cylinder, and you see a number, usually it’ll be something like a point five or a one or a 1.5. And that will tell you how much warping this this person is, is dealing with perceptually can be very confusing. Then the third reading on that row is there’s an x, and then there’s a degrees from zero to 180. And that tells us the meridian that the warping or a astigmatism is the worst. And so that’s where they’re correcting it. So as an example, if the axis is at 180, that would mean that the warping would be more severe in the horizontal, say the three, nine meridian, if the astigmatism is more in the 90 meridian, then it would be more vertical, this would be more in the up and down. This is where the astigmatism is most extreme extreme. Now, I’m going to share something with you because of my
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1000s of people that I’ve tested with the primitive reflexes, and the astigmatism. And I don’t share this very much, except with people like yourself who have some background, and if I share it with the general mainstream, they have no idea what I’m talking about. But if you see axis one ad, there is an issue with eye movements horizontally. And it’s related many times to a poor, poorly integrated, asymmetrical, tonic neck reflex. And if you do the asymmetrical tonic neck, neck reflex program, that astigmatism in that horizontal meridian disappears, it dissolves, and the eye movements get much better in the horizontal meridian. So there’s less visual tracking issues. In fact, I like to combine a TNR with visual tracking, and maybe no astigmatism correction. So that’s, that’s one thing to note. Now, if the astigmatism in the vertical, there’s a difficulty in the eye movement shifting from near to far back to near. So I find that correlation with the symmetrical tonic neck reflex.
I also find that in both cases, if I’m doing cranial sacral, and I release the neck, that the astigmatism releases also says there’s a lot of connections, a lot of dots here for you, when you look at that astigmatism reading, which meridian is the one that’s the problematic now, if it’s anywhere besides the 180, or the 90, so it could be anywhere between say 10 degrees and 80 degrees, or 95 degrees to 175 degrees, that’s kind of in the, you know, one o’clock, two o’clock through five o’clock, or it would be seven o’clock through 11 o’clock on o’clock. If the astigmatism is in those meridians, then they have both the spinal gland Well, I should say all three spinal gland, a TNR, and sgnr. So I’m really working with those quite a bit because the compensation is the child is having difficulty in those diagonal diagonal meridians. So things like the Marsden ball where I’m swinging the ball diagonally in there using a flashlight, or I’m doing some vestibular stimulation. I’m working outside the horizontal vertical movements, but I’m working in a more rotational situation, maybe the astronaut training or something like that. That, again releases the astigmatism in the eye.
So when you were in a stigmatism correction, it’s reinforcing the twist, and the reflexes being more reinforced. And I can’t emphasize that enough. I’ve tried to talk to optometrists about this, but they don’t know about the primitive reflexes. And they’re taught that if they see an imbalance in the refractive error, they give that, but they don’t realize that they’re reinforcing the imbalance course we know the difference with that. And because of the neuroplasticity in a child especially, we can reduce and eliminate astigmatism quite well. And then we can also do some things with the farsightedness or the nearsightedness. So that’s the Eau de, and then right below that is the OS. So again, we’re looking at that same configuration, the sphere, the cylinder, the axis, and you’re looking for the balance to a lot of eye doctors want to correct one eye more than the other. Again, this is a mistake, because you’re reinforcing the asymmetrical pattern, which is why and I learned this from many of my holistic eye doctor, mentor teachers who were mentoring me, when we prescribed symmetrical lenses, the eyes have the ability to go back into a more balanced, symmetrical situation. And we can see this when we do the van orden star and we’re doing the pencil drawing. And you can see how one eye is much closer and the other eye is farther away or whatever we see suppression and one of the eyes. When you were a prescription that reinforces that imbalance. Well, good luck, you are creating a hot a harder obstacle in releasing the refractive error and how that’s going to echo in the body.
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So I’m going to pause here and I want to take your questions, you can come on screen if you want to. Whatever you feel like you want to do, you can also ask it in the chat, whatever, whatever works for you. And if I don’t hear from you, then I’m going to move on to the next topic.
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Dr. Burn? All good. Yeah, I think so. Okay, so let’s move on to the second question that you had, which is a review of the King devack. Any recommendations, important analyses of information. So one of the things that’s happened in the evolution of the King debbik test, it’s a test that measures ocular motor skill. Now, what’s happened over the last several years, and this is very interesting, that the King davek is used for people who have had traumatic brain injury, birth trauma, closed head trauma, sports concussions. And what the researchers found is that when we have any kind of a head trauma, that it’s going to affect our ocular motor control. And we know this when we do our detailed history. And we’re asking about, you know, what kind of birth was this breach, you know, forceps delivery, C section on and on. That, in my opinion is a birth trauma. And then when I fast forward to when I start doing this test at the school age, I am most of the time correlating the ocular motor deficiency way back to that trauma. So when you’re doing this test, children can get kind of agitated when there’s a timing
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pressure on them, which is what this test is involved. And when we start off in the booklet, there’s a practice that we do I usually do a practice with them. And then we start with each page and they have to call out the the number and they’re they’re moving across the page. And I’m not only counting the mistakes, but I’m really tuned in to their behavioral mannerisms. You know, a long time ago when I was a kid consulting with some of the public schools in Philadelphia. So where my first practice was, and I gave a seminar to a group of school nurses because they were really frustrated that they were making the wrong referrals to the eye doctors, they were basing the referral on a distance acuity reading. And I said, there’s three things here. Number one, give the child a near point card, and watch how they read it. And those behaviors are going to immediately tell you that there’s going to be a vision problem. And we know, we know, you know, in your screenings that you’ve written up, skipping words, losing the place covering an eye, you know, pulling it pulling the material closer than the Harmon distance, you know, scrunching up the face, whatever they’re doing, you know, immediately that there’s a vision problem. And the school nurses, it was an epiphany for them, they started to get 100 out of 100, when they would refer because they were using the near point test. And they were asking the children to read that this was before I gave them the king debbik test, but you are gonna get so much information. observationally? Do they want to use their finger? How are they holding their body as they read it? You know, you know, all these things? What are they doing with their head position?
You know, it’s really fascinating when I started to study the primitive reflexes, that we would, in my primitive reflex training, we were taught to observe how a child reads a book. And we could pinpoint which primitive reflexes were not integrated. We also did this by having them hit the Marzen ball, and just how they would walk and run and those kinds of things. So the point of the story is, is that it’s not only the objective test score that you’re going to get, but you’re also going to get the the subjective behavioral characteristics. And to note, if there’s a history of trauma, and it could be any trauma, could be emotional trauma, it could be psychological trauma, physical trauma, that that is playing into the ocular motor skill set.
And, and many of the kids over the years that I have evaluated at Kidpower, one of the common complaints is the tracking is not getting better, or the tracking is not, you know, integrating. And I think this trauma piece, and I know that you know about the polyvagal theory, and the the evolution of the nervous system, and what’s involved in that trauma response, that to continually working alongside the trauma piece, alongside the ocular motor piece, maybe with the primitive reflexes is maybe gives you a little more insight, if a child is falling apart when you’re testing the King debbik. But otherwise, it’s a pretty self explanatory test, you just follow the directions, you score the test. It’s a good one to do for parents or other therapists so that they can see the before and after. And I’ve had many fathers say to me, Wow, this is a big difference in the scoring, after they’ve done, say three months of vision therapy. So again, I’m going to pause and see if you’ve got any questions or comments about the King devack. Otherwise, I’m gonna move on to the next thing.
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Okay, well, I guess things are going well for you. So let’s move on. The next, the next item on your list, all the ways and treatment ideas I recommend for getting in into the morrow, fear paralysis, and the tendon guard reflexes or any others that I would like to cover. One of the spotlights is the observing of the Moro reflex coming out during the movement activities, or in the responses of kids. Also talk about the toes turning in and the toes turning out and the walking patterns what we use in the line assessment, especially when we’re using the prisms as a as a tool to see where the child Is motoring. Okay? Well, I’ll I’ll go through the list as best I can. This is a very deep subject. So you know, I think with the Moro reflex and many of these things you already know because you’ve studied a couple of different people who are really great at, at doing the teaching the reflexes. But one of the things I really look at, in all three, the Moro, the fear paralysis, and the tendon guard reflexes is the breathing. And there are things that I’m looking at in the breathing as follows number one, I’m looking at where, if any, is the movement in their respiratory thoracic area, diaphragm. My experience is that when I have a child with the morrow, fear, paralysis and tendon, they’re breathing. And I’m standing up here is right here in this very small area.
I also notice that there’s a lot of mouth breathing. And one of the sayings that I use is the noses for breathing, and the mouth is for eating. And when we do a lot of mouth breathing, we we get into that fight flight freeze response that Steven Porges talks about in the polyvagal theory. And in our continual movement, community. Porges is, you know, one of the key players in that somatic therapy that you’ve seen me do that the breath tells me everything. It’s like the scroll of history of how that child landed at birth, you know, when we want to say that birth is an emergence, but birth has actually become an emergency in a lot of cases. And that particular imprint right there is the place that really marks the breathing. And this is what then triggers the lockdown of the fear, paralysis, Morrow and tendon guard. So, I’m looking at the breath. I’m looking at the quality of the inhale and the exhale. A lot of kids are in this, huh? Okay. And so when you’re in that, and I’m, I’m dramatizing it, for sure. But I’m holding my breath. I can’t exhale, okay. I’m always in inhale. And then you got the kids that are always in the exhale, and they can’t inhale. So you’re looking at that broad range of inhalation and exhalation. Inhalation is our birth, exhalation is our death, the death, birth, death, birth, every breath we’re doing, inhale, exhale, we dissolve On the exhale, we resolve on the inhale. And it’s why you’ve seen me sometimes help kids by doing a humming sound, or some other sounds that I have to make. And if you do start making some sound, these specific sounds like a humming sound or puffed dough or an e sound.
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What happens is indirectly, the the breathing gets longer, deeper, more diaphragmatic. And it’s something that I will do sounding while we’re doing, say some of the reflex integration stuff. And another way you could do this would be to put them on the beamer for a few minutes before you do the reflex, maybe do a little cranial sacral while they’re on the Beamer, so you’re really spreading their tissue, you’re slowing them down, you’re getting them into their body, and then you’re going to notice the breath is better. Another place I see the lockdown is in the neck area as well. We know that with you know, I just can just touch a child’s neck and I know all three of these are, you know really locked in and I am very sensitive about triggering or re stimulating traumas in kids i i Really. I’m very dedicated and committed to that knowing my own sensitivity, that sometimes I don’t need to test these reflexes, I just know they have them. And by testing them is going to re stimulate the trauma, which I don’t want to do. In any event. That’s what I’m really looking at the breathing. So one of the ways very simply, you don’t have to know all the sounds or something is the palm hum. Having them put their hands over their eyes, and just breathing in through the nose. And on the exhale. Um, and you do it with them. I do this a lot with kids, I had up a child the other day from Kidpower.
And very traumatized, there was a lot of thunder outside. And so we both lay down all three of us in mom two, we did the palm hum for a few minutes. And then we started to work. And we started to do some reflex integration things. And she was much more centered and receptive, after her system dropped in dropped into herself. So the sound is one of the best ways to penetrate compressed tissue, and it’s indirectly going to help the breathing. And at the same time, it’s going to allow you to help them integrate these early imprints that most likely, either were from the birth imprint, or the gestation imprint. And I asked a lot of questions about gestation, what was going on with mom and dad and the grandparents and the siblings. And if there was a miscarriage, right before that, all of these things, the fetus feels 100x We know this, right. And so all of these imprints are absorbed. And these are the kids that we’re, you know, we’re helping navigate and land them, so that they can realize that birth is an emergence, and not what the allopathic medical community says, which is, is an emergency. And that’s what it’s become. And it’s we’re trying to land these kids. And part of it is getting them to integrate the reflexes. So in terms of the movements when I have them walking, and you see this, when I come in, I evaluate, I’m having them walk a line, and I’m going to see proprioceptive ly, how much control they have of their arms and their legs, it tells me where they where they are in space proprioception is a great indicator of where are my arms? Where are my legs and where are my feet? How am I dealing with gravity in a vertical orientation? And so we get to see in the walking
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with the feet, are they heel to toe Are they just toe strikers are the heel start strikers are and that tells me if if not much of their feet are really grounding in that they’re pulling away from the Earth. And that also says they’ve pulled away from coming out of the birth canal. It’s like whoa, I’m supposed to come out, have I been induced, Where’s Mom, where’s, you know, I’m not feeling her, she’s on Pitocin or whatever, all of those things affect their grounding ability. And I’m also looking at the symmetry because whatever the feet are doing, the eyes are doing if the feet are going out, probably the eyes are more than an extra foria divergence. Place or if their feet are turning in there or one of their feet is turning in. That’s more of a convergence situation or could be a strabismus situation. And then when we use the prisms, this is great because the prisms are shifting their midline, left, right, up or down.
And it’s going to give you a preference on where to plug in. Based on their stability. Sometimes we want to challenge them. And let’s say they are not grounded in we would give them the base up prisms and that’s going to bring them down and in although they might feel disoriented with that, or is it another example if you’re looking at the van orden stars, and they’re all right i in the left eye is diffused in its focusing. We might give them a base right prism to move the more into their left eye and you’ll see this whole situation and play out when they’re walking. Now the other thing about this is going backwards, the backspace the back breathing is so important because the way we come in is we’re thrusting forward. And our whole awareness is this way, screen time TV. Everything that we’re doing is thrusting forward. And what in my, in my clinical experience, when I help kids learn about backspace, and they get that 360 in their vision, their peripheral vision opens up, they ground in their vestibular system begins to integrate with the visual system, their visual memory gets better.
So that’s why the motoring backwards is so important. And again, you’ve got the prisms where you can work with these kids, forwards, backwards. And then in a more advanced setting you things like the Marston ball, or the beanbag catch or the juggling, or even doing a little bit of vestibular stimulation with the width, the yoke prisms on all of these things, again, are going to help you in the integration of the reflexes. You know, yesterday, I had an OT who came to see me. And she was really freaked out about her vertigo, which he’s had for many, many years. And so I said, Look, I can help you with this. And I had her lie down on her back, and I gave her the prisms and I had her move a little bit. And at first she went into that fight flight freeze, fear, paralysis, vertigo. And she had a memory that when she came out of the birth canal, she got stuck. And the doctor was trying to do all kinds of things to get her out and finally pulled her out. And she was so disoriented from it just here, she’s a 55 year old woman an OT yet. And I said go into the vertigo. And she did. And boom, her peripheral vision opened up. And she’s like, I’m free. Now, I’ve always had this fear around the vertigo. And now I’ve traced it back to the birth. And we also traced it to the fear paralysis reflex. So anyways, all these connections are taking place. And it’s for you to work in your own evolutionary way about discovery, and that we can have discussions about this, so that you can start to connect the dots, and it’ll get you and your child to the finish line much more quickly. Hmm, all right. That was a mouthful. I’m gonna pause. Are there any comments questions?
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No Brain overload. Dr. Murray. Rain overload. Okay. Well, sorry about that. But I only have you for an hour or so. And I think you can handle it so they can handle it. I know. Okay, so the next thing on your list peripheral vision, how peripheral vision difficulties manifest in functional clinical observations we might see and favorite treatment activities to address peripheral vision deficits. Okay, I’m gonna say it this way. In the eyeball, we have a vast real estate which we call the retina, the back of the eye. And there is a very tiny part of the retina called the macula. The macula makes up less than 1% of the real estate of the retina. Now the function of the macula is to see detail and have color vision. And if we rewind hundreds of years ago, and we look at our ancestors, our ancestors because they didn’t have any screens or digital devices. It was before the Industrial Revolution. Our ancestors process things in a much more global way.
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And so the macula was not getting overloaded. But once we Hit the industrial revolution. So we were dealing with robotic, repetitive, very, you know, mental things. This is what the culture how we were moving in that direction. And then technology came on the scene. And of course today, we can’t live without our screens and our devices, we have become very Macula centric. Another way to say that is we tunnel. Now, the downside of tunneling is that the 99% of our retinas that are involved in peripheral vision, are not getting activated. Now, one of the detriments of that is that when we don’t activate our peripheral vision, our vestibular system also is not activated. So another way to say that is when we become very tunneled, and over focalized, we lose touch of our vestibular functioning. and that’s why more and more people are suffering. Things like nausea, dizziness, disorientation, vertigo, because if they glimpse up and out at something beyond this very narrow band, they’re going to get very disoriented. And yet one of the principles in vision therapy that I love to use is to disorient people, so that they have to find the resource to reorient themselves. disorientation, reorientation, disorientation, reorientation, that builds so much neurological intelligence, and neurological health to do that.
Now, as a therapist, the art of it is going well, I don’t want to push this person over the edge to the point where, you know, they can’t reorient themselves. But whether you’re using an eyepatch or using the prisms or doing color therapy, you know, just as some examples, those are ways that you could be disorienting, you’re you’re adding a new stimulus. And whenever you add a new stimulus, the brain goes, I gotta remap myself. And in the research that I’ve seen about neuroplasticity, especially in kids, they have so many mapping potential opportunities that we don’t have, you know, after the age of 28, it becomes a little harder to access neuroplasticity, we still can. But there’s some other things we need to do to prepare ourselves to access that plasticity. But in kids, you see it all the time. And so to know, okay, where are they in their nervous system, maybe they need to go into the silent room for a few minutes with their headphones. Or maybe they need to do the Beamer at the beginning of the session or some color therapy or something, maybe some blocks. Many times I’ll start a session and we’ll just do some parquetry blocks, because kids like that that’s the hands on. But in any event, the goal is to get them out into their peripheral vision.
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Because peripheral vision helps us with our depth perception. So when they look at the clown, the three dimensional picture with the polaroid glasses, one of the things that happens if they’re not getting any 3d, you could get him to stand up and do a little bit of long swings or get them to do some kind of a physio, physio ball or some kind of vestibular stimulation. So the vestibular can help trigger and improve the peripheral vision. And the peripheral vision can help stimulate and trigger the the vestibular system. So it goes both ways. It’s good to know that and let’s say you have a child where you’re you know that their their peripheral is not there. Another way to see that is in the van orden stars. Lots of kids you’ve seen in the drawings, all of the lines are down, or all the lines are off to the one side or to the other side. So what that tells you is they very little up space, very little peripheral appear. And the idea is that by doing the movement things you do the vestibular things you do, you are accessing their peripheral vision. And now you’ve got the tools where you can test things using the polarized pictures. That that is a great way or the van orden scars. You can see by Nokia literally, are they showing up simultaneously, and is there a peripheral engagement. The other tool that’s really awesome for developing peripheral vision is the base down prisms, the base down your prisms. Those are the prisms that when you put them on, it raises the horizon line up and out at an angle.
What a gift when the child is down and in and inward eyes that that is a stress, trauma response. I’ve got to protect myself I got to pull in. You may even see it more dramatically in crossed eyes strabismus. If one of the eyes is crossing. They’re turning away from life on that side. And so encouraging them to say what’s over here, you know, things like flashlight tag, and that scarves and the beanbags and getting them into that open space. And there’s the triangle that I talked about the vision, the vestibular and the third part of the triangle is the proprioception. And so when you bring in proprioception, when somatically they feel their body, that is another way automatically their vestibular comes out. So if I was drawing arrows back and forth proprioception can stimulate periphery. the periphery can stimulate proprioception. Proprioception can stimulate vestibular vestibular can stimulate proprioception, vestibular can stimulate vision and vision can stimulate vestibular. So you’ve got the formula, wherever you want to plug into, or where you feel there’s an opening in the child, so that they can begin to develop that peripheral awareness in a way that is going to help them with their memory, their balance, and their depth perception. And so many kids that I see what’s happening with them is they are not by an ocular. And if they’re right-handed, a lot of times their left is suppressing. You can see it in the word for dot, you can see it in the Keystone visual skills. You can see it in the vector Graham. So you’ve got a couple of different ways. And part of the suppression is they’re not able to
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activate their peripheral vision. And so your job some way is to see if you can get them visually and vestibular even more out here. And that’s a safety issue sometimes. So they have to feel safe, and they have to feel stable. And they have to know that, you know, they’re not going to get completely overwhelmed. That’s why we shut it down. Because we can’t handle all that periphery. And this is what starts for example, myopia, nearsightedness. We start filtering, pulling in, or farsightedness, we push it away, or astigmatism, we twist it. So I think that what I’ve observed when I’ve watched you is that you are doing a lot of peripheral awareness. And you know, if you had to pin me down what’s my favorite activity, probably would be juggling or would be doing some kind of a balance exercise. So those would be some things that I would do and then maybe start engaging a visual, you no visual experience with that either with the prisms something soft and easy. And then of course you can use the learning lenses, that’s another way to get them into a little more periphery. And using the eyepatch equally on each eye as long as it’s not overwhelming them is another way that when you take the patch off, you get a rush of light that comes in on that side. That’s a lot more peripheral vision than Before you did the patch, and the brain again, has that plasticity, plasticity, that you’re creating a new mapping immediately. And that’s the great thing about these kids. And you see it, they’re flowering, they’re growing, they’re evolving. And I don’t measure them in what necessarily, society says, Okay, you have to be doing this at this age. They’re at their own unique rhythm. Okay, I’m going to pause here, and we’ve got a few minutes left. I want to see if there’s any other questions or comments.
45:47
No, I think we’re good. Dr. Byrne?
45:51
Oh, my goodness. Okay. You guys are you guys are advanced. So any other any other questions? on anything, otherwise, I think we’ll you know, we’ll bookmark it here, but so making sense for you? Yeah, definitely. Okay. Okay. Well, I think well, we will be meeting again, I don’t know the schedule. But I know Monica has that. And Carla does, too. And I think I might be coming down in September. We’ll see if that actually happens. So in the meantime, I hope everybody’s having a great summer. And I will send this recording along to you. And if you have any questions, feel free to email me either about what I talked about today or any of your the kiddies that you’re working with. All right, we will, Dr. Bird. Thank you very much. Thank you. You’re welcome. Bye bye bye.
Thank you for listening. I hope you learned something from the EyeClarity podcast show today. If you enjoyed the episode, make sure to subscribe on iTunes or Spotify and leave a review. See you here next time.
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